185cc 4 strokes in Stock modified and Minigp 80

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185cc 4 strokes in Stock modified and Minigp 80

Post  Squirrel on Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:37 pm

Shell they be allowed
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Re: 185cc 4 strokes in Stock modified and Minigp 80

Post  -cy- on Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:03 pm

Team Tuned's Mini GP 80 is gonna blow ya CBR AWAY!!! cheers
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Re: 185cc 4 strokes in Stock modified and Minigp 80

Post  Squirrel on Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:11 pm

well i was doin it for the benifit of yalll cause really it should be 160 and no higher and if i am doin the motor work oh boy but eh runn it bye bye team tuned LOL
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Re: 185cc 4 strokes in Stock modified and Minigp 80

Post  -cy- on Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:55 pm

just looking up some regulations from other organizations.. here is a link to the South California Mini Gran Prix organization... there rules on such are class are as follows:

"Air or Liquid-cooled 2-strokes 93cc or Air-cooled 4-stroke 175cc. Bikes can have any unlimited modifications. *Liquid-cooled CRF150R motors allowed, no internal modifications allowed. Stock Carburetor required - Jetting allowed. No Pipe Restriction. No Wheel Restriction."

The link to the organization and their rules are as follows: http://www.scminigp.com/classes/35/9_Pro_GP

They allow the 175cc four strokes (instead of 185cc four strokes) and allow bigger cc 2strokes.... something to think about? Shocked
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Re: 185cc 4 strokes in Stock modified and Minigp 80

Post  -cy- on Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:21 am

I've found another organization.. the CMRA... there rule book can be found here: Rule Book


The following rule can be found on page 24 of 35. The restrictions they put on a similiar class is as follows:

Formula 4 (No Expert/Novice differentiation)
85cc 2-stroke water-cooled, GP Chassis ok
125cc 2-stroke air-cooled, pre-1995, superbike rules
150cc 4-stroke water-cooled singles, GP chassis ok
200cc 4-stroke water-cooled singles, 4 valve or less, Superbike rules
250cc 4-stroke air-cooled singles, GP chassis ok
Kawasaki EX250 (Ninja), Honda VTR 250 and Buell Blast using Superstock rules with airbox modifications or individual filters and any bodywork allowedAmong the eligible machines are pre-1995 125cc air-cooled dirt bikes (Supermotard trim OK), GP Chassis 85cc water cooled (RS80), CRF230F, XR250 in GP frame


Thoughts?
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Re: 185cc 4 strokes in Stock modified and Minigp 80

Post  gsaltus on Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:53 pm

Personally I think in keeping with name Stock Modified should be stock bikes with mods. Stock 2 strokes were legal up to 100cc air or water cooled and 4 strokes now are legal up to 150. Therefore to make it fair 2stroke up 100cc, 4stroke 200cc.
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Re: 185cc 4 strokes in Stock modified and Minigp 80

Post  -cy- on Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:42 pm

gsaltus wrote:Personally I think in keeping with name Stock Modified should be stock bikes with mods. Stock 2 strokes were legal up to 100cc air or water cooled and 4 strokes now are legal up to 150. Therefore to make it fair 2stroke up 100cc, 4stroke 200cc.

I agree with the thought process of double the cc of a fourstroke in comparison to the two strokes.... Unfortunately based on the concept of air cooled vs. liquid cooled... single cyclinder vs. twin cylinder.. etc... Engine performance vary and hence the CMRA using different CC restriction, even within the two or four stroke range, based on # of cylinders and engine characteristics.

In the BMRC rule book in years past, the two strokes in stock modified were 80cc liquied cooled, 100cc air cooled two strokes... and 175cc aircooled four stroke i believe... I will refer to the 2005 rule book to verify when i get home tonight. The concern is the displacement of a 185cc four stroke liquid cooled motor and whether that should be legally competitive against an 80cc two stroke... The CMRA seems to believe so and their series has been in existence for quite some time. I've spoken with a member and he agrees, although he uses an 85cc motocross motors and not an 80cc derbi motor kitted with metrakit engine parts.

Nonetheless the ideas are good... Keep them coming... Looking forward to growth in the racing community and a competitive season in ALL classes!
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Re: 185cc 4 strokes in Stock modified and Minigp 80

Post  gsaltus on Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:29 am

The air cooled theory is cool but water vs water, air vs air, double capacity should be maintained. Those 150's are hot already and with 35 more cc; 25 more than double capacity they should dominate the class. Last season we saw cook and red go at it and that was a close race. I've spoken with the guys that work on Cook's bike and they said he was racing with the 150 motor. Clearly he needed those 10 extra cc to win out right but with these rules who is going to catch him. Red had a full race 80 compared to cook's modified sonic.

Double capacity is my view on what the rules should be.
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Re: 185cc 4 strokes in Stock modified and Minigp 80

Post  -cy- on Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:52 pm

agreed... double seems to be a standard for single cylinder two vs four stroke...

on that basis... the question becomes.... increase or decrease cc's... i.e.

  • 93cc 2-Stroke.... 185cc 4-Stroke (current proposed 4-stroke)

  • 85cc 2-Stroke... 170cc 4-stroke

  • 80cc 2-Stroke... 160cc 4-Stroke (current 2 stroke)


The rules dating back a couple season has been 175cc air of liquid four strokes... so the idea is either decrease or increase four stroke and regulate the two-stroke based on half of the 4-stroke. Equally competitive is the game...

Comments and Suggestions?
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Re: 185cc 4 strokes in Stock modified and Minigp 80

Post  Squirrel on Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:07 pm

as i see it the it is easin't to decrease the size of the 4 stoke then increase the size of the 2 strokes. for one the parts availibilty for the 4 stokes is a hole lot greater. ie they have kits ranging from 153 up to 210 where as the 80cc two stroke isn't that easy so i would say got 80cc two stroke and 160 4stroke there for it would make the class a hole lot easier to run in relaibility with in the bikes themselves and the ppl that already have the 80cc two strokes don't have to go searching for bigger bore kits.
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Re: 185cc 4 strokes in Stock modified and Minigp 80

Post  gsaltus on Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:45 pm

I feel that its a hard choice to make. On one hand you got the guys that are bring street machines to the track kitted up to race against full race GP80's that haven't seen any regulations limiting its performance. Me personally would like to see the 93 2-stroke vs 185 4-stroke. The reason is traditionally this class was primarily modified street machines that where roded down on track day and roded home. When the GP80 came into the mix a lot of the guys got discouraged cause these full race machines with there light weight frames, trick suspension, and slick tires where dominating the class. Now that the four strokes are here guys are excited again and are spending the money to come out racing. So to make things exciting lets make it fair and even, two stroke guys have to upgrade just like the four stroke guys. With this the rider/mechanic has to build relibility into there machines and thats where the class will level. Right now GP80s are gas and go; once the set up is half way decent the rider can be out front where as if there is a real threat everyone will be striving for perfection and it should make for some good racing.
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Re: 185cc 4 strokes in Stock modified and Minigp 80

Post  Squirrel on Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:07 pm

I like what you have said also you need to remember that it is all about fair game. back then and now are two different era's yes it would be good to see a 93nsr to go up against a 185 but hate to say it there is very very very few that are out on the road. there for we can change the rules to make it fair game. also there could be a hp restriction in the class rather then a cc restriction and or speed restrection. they have done that in motorcross so that is some other things that can be takin into account. If you look at Moto GP they went from 990 to 800 and they are still breaking lap records so really it should be based on the mechanic after all. If they can do it why can't we the four stokes are just comin into picture and to be fair to the two strokes keep it as it is.
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It makes perfectly good sense.......

Post  #8 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:50 pm

I totally agree that 185cc four strokes should be allowed in the stock moidified class. In terms of horsepower, yes the 185 will have a slight advantage, but as far as weight, aerodynamics, and overall handling are concerned, the modded mini-gp machines have a distinct advantage. Let's also not forget that if you want to, you can turn up the horsepower on those mini's a little bit too (as Cy is already tryin to imply....) if you're willing to do the necessary work to maintain it. Also, let's not forget that the prices of those 185cc upgrade kits aren't cheap, you basically need an entirely other motor, minus the casings, and still spend a couple thousand on shipping.....If you want to attract more riders to the class to race on the four strokes, I believe this would be the way to go.........after-all, there is only one John Cook! Twisted Evil

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Re: 185cc 4 strokes in Stock modified and Minigp 80

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