2008 Rule Book Amendments

As per the request of the committee I have posted the amendments suggested per class on this forum. Please voice any opinions on the rules for the committee to review in one (1) weeks time for this post date:

SUPER BIKE

Four-Stroke
• Single cylinder unlimited displacement
• Twin cylinder up to 850cc
• Four cylinder up to 600cc

NOTE: Slick tires can be used

FORMULA

Two-Stroke
• Single or Twin cylinder up to 250cc

Four-Stroke
• Single or Twin cylinder up to 500cc

All bikes competing in Superbike and Formula are “street production” models. “Grand prix” machinery will be not allowed within this classifications. Exception will be made for Supermotard motorcyles only.


GRAND PRIX 80 (change from Stock Modified)

Two-Stroke
• 80cc 2-stroke water-cooled
• 100cc 2-stroke air-cooled

Four-Stroke
• 185cc 4-stroke water-cooled singles
• 200cc 4-stroke air-cooled singles

SCOOTER OPEN

Two-Stroke
• 70cc 2-stroke air/liquid cooled

Four-Stroke
• 185cc 4-stroke air/liquid cooled

Metrakit Mini GP 70 (changed from MiniGP70)

• Wheel Size – 12 inch Only
• Cylinders – Metrakit 70cc SP (can not be modified)
• Crankshaft – Original or Metrakit SP Crankshaft
• Crankcases – Original (can not be modified)
• Gear boxes - may be original or aftermarket.
• Exhaust – Metrakit 70cc SP Series
• Ignition systems – OEM Ignition System (no aftermarket ignitions may be used)
• Carburetors - must not exceed 28mm.

All bikes competing in the Metrakit Minigp 70 classification will be of Metrakit production. This class will be deemed a “spec class” and as such will be strictly regulated by the above mentioned rules.

Rule books from 2006 and 2007 have been posted on this forum for all members review as a reference between what was and what has been suggested. The link to such thread is: here

What happen to 125 class;

1. Age requirement 13yrs.

2. You have to do a 2year racing process leading up to this class when entering at this age. (eg. 2year Mini SP70 then 2year Mini GP80 then you must also get the committee approval before purchasing the vehicle so you do not waste your money.

3. How Mr. David Jone put it. I quote: "To the PARENTS, Stop trying to race putting your child up to these higher powered classes. You should move them up in stages".

4. How could you forget this when this was the highlight of the meeting?

I was notified to post the suggested rule amendments so that all members may voice their opinion here. I was unaware of any further amendments to be posted as I was not present at the meeting (my apologies). Your suggestions, along with any other suggestions put forth by members, will be taken back to the committee in a week for further review before finalizing the 2008 rule book.

I love you!

Speed wrote:What happen to 125 class;

1. Age requirement 13yrs.

2. You have to do a 2year racing process leading up to this class when entering at this age. (eg. 2year Mini SP70 then 2year Mini GP80 then you must also get the committee approval before purchasing the vehicle so you do not waste your money.

3. How Mr. David Jone put it. I quote: "To the PARENTS, Stop trying to race putting your child up to these higher powered classes. You should move them up in stages".

4. How could you forget this when this was the highlight of the meeting?

The concept being put forth of a set line of stepping stones from one class to another for our youth riders is agreeable as there needs to be a structure put in place which will enable them to better prepare themselves physically and mentally. In response to your suggests I have a few questions:

1. What standard are we using to base the age of racing a 125 at 13? Depending on series the minimal age ranges from 10-14 in the United states (and at 14 exceptions can be made for riders as young as 12 based on previous riding experience and approval of committee).

1. If such a program of 2 years per class is put in place what will be the age ranges based per class? i.e.
   MiniGP 70: Min- 7 Max-13?
   MiniGP80: Min-11.. Max-Indefinite?
   GP125: Min-13.. Max Indefinite?

1. This is all on a basis of class progression... what are your suggestions in the event a new rider comes in enters at age 11? which class do they fall into? How about age 17?

Look forward to your response

The age of 12 for the 125 class is to young. Our rule book is based on and directly taken from the USGPRU witch is the largest 125 and 250 organization in the United States. They have set there minimun age for the 125 class at 13 and so should we if we are usuing their rules. Wera rules do say that riders 10yr olds can race in that class BUT..... they have to attend a authorized school recognized by the association. If you do some research you will find out the WERA has the smallest 125 field...... like 3 bikes on the grid, so they droped the age to get riders. Any young rider that is of age will want to race under the USGPRU flag because thats where it at.

For a 12yr old to race with the USGPRU he had better have a long resume' as proof of his qualifications and write in to petition the committee to go race. All of the past 3 USGPRU champions Garrett Carter, Josh Herrin, and PJ Jacobson were 12-13 when they won, but they brought with them 8yrs race expirence and national championships. you can google PJ Jacobson and see his race history.

With the exception of Toriano we dont have fast young riders because we are not allowing the kids to achieve greatness on the smaller bikes. We rip them off leading up to them being in their prime and put them on another bike to learn setting them 2-3yrs BACK. Yes let them Practice at 12 but race at 13.

The 600 class 15yrs WAY to young you gotta show some maturity man and skill first and at 15yrs they still dont have it.

These were Hot topics in the meeting and should be in the ammendments list too....

The Doctor

food for thought PJ's race history BEFORE he started road racing

2000
AMA 50cc Grand National Champion
AMA 50cc Modified Grand National Champion
2001
AMA 65cc 2nd place Grand National Champion
AMA 65cc North Central Champion
2002
AMA 65cc Southeast National Champion
AMA 65cc South Central National Champion
AMA 65cc Northeast National Champion
AMA 65cc DTX Grand National Champion
AMA 65cc Modified Grand National Champion
2003
AMA 85cc DTX Northeast National Champion
AMA 85cc Modified Northeast National Champion
AMA 85cc 2nd Place Grand National Champion
AMA Grand National Supermotard East Coast Champion
2004
AMA 85cc DTX Northeast National Champion
AMA 85cc Modified Northeast National Champion
AMA 85cc 3rd place Grand National Champion
SMUSA Supermotard Lightweight Northeast Champion
SMUSA Supermotard Mini Northeast Champion
Lake George 2004 Ice Race Champion
2005
AMA 85cc DTX Grand National Champion
AMA 85cc Modified Grand National Champion
AMA 85cc DTX Northeast National Champion
AMA 85cc Modified Northeast Champion
NASMOTO 85cc Champion
AMA Winter Series 85cc DTX Champion
AMA Winter Series 85cc Modified Champion

Language: English (change)

A king, now you have me up late tonight. One subject at a time. First subject. It's going to be a long one.

GP125cc Age requirements!

1. On the meeting night I did not research the age requirements for racing a GP125cc bike. I use other experienced persons information. Since then I have researched this age rule looking at the club situation.

http://race.commline.com/

Here is a web-site that to me clears it all up. These regulations are as listed under "Road Race World Championship Grand Prix Regulations".

1. FIM - Age requirement for GP125 is 15yrs.
See page #19 GP250 is 16yrs
Moto GP 18yrs

2. USGPRU - Age requirement for GP125 is 14yrs.
See Page #6

3. WSMC - Age requirement for GP125 is 16yrs.
See Page #17

4. CCS - Age requirement for GP125 is 18yrs.
See page #19

These are the age requirements for racing a GP125cc bike.

Please let me know were you are getting your information from?

My view now, looking at the STATS is that the starting age should be 16yrs. Special approval should be given to Parents trying to pursue a courier in motorcycle racing for there kid. This age I THING should be 14yrs. Most kids will more than likely race in the USGPRU Series.

Ok let me see if i can organzie these thoughts correctly... with respect to "The Doctors" comments: We are all in agreeance that there needs to be an age/experience set per classification for our sport. We have based majority of our rule book, in concept, around the usgpru rule book as a foundation for structure. As the USGPRU is a major series for the 125 they do set the standard for 125 racing in the USA... As "Speed" has noted.. the FIM standard is 15 for minimal age. The age restrictions are based on the standard of which the racing is held, speeds achieved and insurance policies (correct me if i'm wrong as i'm doing research and learning as I comment). The USGPRU's age limits are highly based on their ability to insure minors hence their inability to allow even the best of minors race a 125 below the age of 12.

Within Bermuda it is our overall goal to provide a training ground for youth to be able to be ready to compete on an international level, in such events as the USGPRU, WERA, CCS and the like. In order to do so, as Speed has discussed, the club should look towards implementing a scheme simliar too that of the motocross, but created for the street racing community.

On that note... wat are you suggestions on age ranges from Mini bike Junior all the way to GP125?

As noted the age was changed to 12 to allow Toriano to race due to his exceptional skills, which has now left the door open (or another way to view it as opening pandara's box). This rule has been in the rule book for the past two racing seasons. Any adjustments to age and criteria to enter classes should be (concept) instated for the 2009 Season as we (as a club) decide on the logistics of creating this "stepping stone" based racing system for our motorcycle racing club locally.

In response to Speed... The information i pulled for ages are provided on the following sites in the following page numbers:

CCS Racing - 2008 Rule Book pg.10: click here

SECTION 2 - RIDER REQUIREMENTS
2.1 CCS AGE REQUIREMENT - Applicants must be at least 12 years of age.
Applicants below the age of majority in their home state must provide a
notarized statement of permission from a legal parent or guardian at each
event. Championship Cup Series reserves the right to restrict participation in
any event based on age and/or specifi c track regulations.
2.1.1 All Riders between the ages of 12 and 14 are limited to 125 GP.

WERA - 2008 Rule book Chapter 7 click here

"...Riders 10 years old are restricted to the 125cc GP class. Riders 12 & 13 years old are restricted to 650cc LW Twins machines. Riders 14 & 15 years old are limited to “C” class machinery. Riders 16 and older are allowed to run any WERA legal machinery. These limits may be changed at WERA’s discretion on a case by case basis."

As you stated the FIM is age 15 and the USGPRU age 14... As the Doctor noted WERA possibly is looking to expand its riders hence the age drop. The suggestion to increase the minimal age limit is understandable on the basis of creating the "Stepping Stone" theory from one class to another. As USGPRU has within their rules as do most other organizations, the ability for a rider to enter a classification below that "rule book" minimal age can be accessed and approved by the committee. i.e. "previous race experience and committee approval"

The question would be... as Speed as asked before... what is the basis of approval for such an exception ? A suggestion would.. the senior racing members of the club shall outline specifics of what a rider must do in order to be an exception in making a graduation from one class to any other class in the event that the minimal age is not met.. i.e. mini bike open to stock modified at age 10 if rules state age 11.


Comments?

I would like to know whats the issue with the age? It was said in the meeting and is state in the rules:Riders entering the GP125 and superbike class must have at least one year race experience and committee approval at the age of 12. Jones said it himself if he doesn't feel your ready you ain't going to race. I take this as meaning regards how old you are 12,30,60 if you ain't ready you ain't racing. Talented youngsters are hard to find especially if we hinder their progress.

Remember these rules we are copying are professional bodies rules. These riders are competing against at least 25 riders in each class. With that number of riders the rules would have to be strict. Down here we are seeing what at most 8 if we are lucky in each class at that. We are weekend warriors looking to have a good time. If the committee saids their ready and the parents are down why not.

Admin wrote:
GRAND PRIX 80 (change from Stock Modified)

Two-Stroke
• 80cc 2-stroke water-cooled
• 100cc 2-stroke air-cooled

Four-Stroke
• 185cc 4-stroke water-cooled singles
• 200cc 4-stroke air-cooled singles

SCOOTER OPEN

Two-Stroke
• 70cc 2-stroke air/liquid cooled

Four-Stroke
• 185cc 4-stroke air/liquid cooled

Why is there such a gap between 2-stroke and 4-stroke. In particular GP80cc 2-stroke liquid cooled. Air cools have the double capacity theory why not water. And scooter 70 even bigger gap whats up with that. Motocross and GP racing around the world have the double capacity theory 125cc 2stroke vs 250cc 4stroke, 250cc 2stroke vs 500cc 4stroke. Now in some organisations two stroke are allow bigger.
Super Mini (Big Wheel) (12-15) 80-112cc 2-Stroke/75-150cc 4-Stroke
85cc (12-15) 66-85cc 2-Stroke/75-125cc 4-Stroke
85cc Juniors (7-11) 66-85cc 2-Stroke/75-125cc 4-Stroke
65cc (7 - 11) 52-65cc 2-Stroke/52-90cc 4-Stroke
50cc (4 - 8 ) 0-51cc
Girls (12 -15) 80-112cc 2-Stroke/75-150cc 4-Stroke
Yes these where taken from a motocross rule book for youth amateur racers
http://www.amadirectlink.com/rulebooks/supps/2008/YHS.pdf
Technology is improving and so should the rules.

In the Mini bike JR. class the 40cc 2 stroke bikes need to be added. they were left out again.

The Doctor

[quote="gsaltus"]

gsaltus wrote:Why is there such a gap between 2-stroke and 4-stroke. In particular GP80cc 2-stroke liquid cooled. Air cools have the double capacity theory why not water. And scooter 70 even bigger gap whats up with that. Motocross and GP racing around the world have the double capacity theory 125cc 2stroke vs 250cc 4stroke, 250cc 2stroke vs 500cc 4stroke. Now in some organisations two stroke are allow bigger.

One major difference between motocross and gp racing international and the club level racing is that the motocross and "grand prix" classes alll contain "purpose built" race machines. The motocross bikes are designed from ground up to race on the motocross and supercross tracks worldwide (from suspension to the motor). Such is the same for the grand prix machines such as the GP125 and GP250 but there in lies a major difference between an Honda RS125 and the Honda RS125 GP machine (still same cc).

The issue we face in a class such as the MiniGP 80 (generally known as stock modified) is that, in general, all the four-stroke motorcycles that will be racing are not "purpose buit" race machine, whereas the Mini GP80 XL race machines are. (GPR 80 vs Mini GP 80). Herein lies the core problem... a CR150F motor vs. a CBR150F motor competing in the stock modified...both four stroke motors... completely different power thresholds...

As Speed has noted before we are trying to attract the average spectator down to the race track to both wach and/or get involved. The MiniGP (known as stock modified) class has, in history, been that source of our community members to "bring what you got". When a member of the public upgrades their SONIC, CBR or Raider.. do they put a 150 kit or a 185?

The comparison cc to a 185 fourstroke is a 93 twostroke... but when mentioned the supports of half and half believe that the 93 on a Mini GP 80 would have the advantage of a 185 CBR or Sonic. It was suggested to "test" the entry of the 185 fourstrokes vs. the 80cc twostrokes and then re-assess the cc restrictions.

Thoughts?

The Doctor wrote:In the Mini bike JR. class the 40cc 2 stroke bikes need to be added. they were left out again.

The Doctor

Will forward to the committee for review

-cy- wrote:
One major difference between motocross and gp racing international and the club level racing is that the motocross and "grand prix" classes alll contain "purpose built" race machines. The motocross bikes are designed from ground up to race on the motocross and supercross tracks worldwide (from suspension to the motor). Such is the same for the grand prix machines such as the GP125 and GP250 but there in lies a major difference between an Honda RS125 and the Honda RS125 GP machine (still same cc).

The issue we face in a class such as the MiniGP 80 (generally known as stock modified) is that, in general, all the four-stroke motorcycles that will be racing are not "purpose buit" race machine, whereas the Mini GP80 XL race machines are. (GPR 80 vs Mini GP 80). Herein lies the core problem... a CR150F motor vs. a CBR150F motor competing in the stock modified...both four stroke motors... completely different power thresholds...

As Speed has noted before we are trying to attract the average spectator down to the race track to both wach and/or get involved. The MiniGP (known as stock modified) class has, in history, been that source of our community members to "bring what you got". When a member of the public upgrades their SONIC, CBR or Raider.. do they put a 150 kit or a 185?

The comparison cc to a 185 fourstroke is a 93 twostroke... but when mentioned the supports of half and half believe that the 93 on a Mini GP 80 would have the advantage of a 185 CBR or Sonic. It was suggested to "test" the entry of the 185 fourstrokes vs. the 80cc twostrokes and then re-assess the cc restrictions.

Thoughts?

I understand the difference in production base and race versions. My thing is we guys that have RS aprilia's, derbi GPRs, Yamaha YSRs and Honda NSRs are getting the short end of the stick. Production vs production is where I'm coming from. Production bikes already lose out to GP80 now the four strokes are going to smash us to bits. Thats why me personally don't like the GP80 class in with the stock modified. Not everyone can afford a GP machine thats why the stock modified class was created. Get the street racers off the street, that was the idea. HWP has at least 10 RS50 lined up and where do you think they are going to be raced. We need more power!

We do have a Class for CBR150 & so on, Formula Class. You need (5) bikes that will REGULARY come down to race in order to form this class back. I died off due to upgrades, competition and people just never showed up after a couple of races. The bikes that were left we merged with stock modified and some rules were changed. I know the feeling, I could not race the Mistral MBK 50cc Mobylette because of this.

in reply to gsaltus comments,

the big thing about the age issue is that by lowering the age limit in the bigger classes you will strip the lower classes of good competitive racing. my son is 8yrs old i can keep him in the minibike open class until he is 11 or 12 and he can be a multi time champion in that class. then i can up root him straight to the 125gp class. or better yet you have a rider who is 12 to 15 and has 5 yrs race expirence and comes last every race day but by virtue of age he is qualified to race a 125 or 600 what has he shown prior to the move. nothing.

further more i want to know how many parents are willing to risk ALL they have so their child can be a pro racer? i bet none........... but that is what it is gonna take .

if you have to buy a bike every year so your child can compete just because every one else has moved up will burn a big hole in your pocket.

at the end of the day cost is going to be the biggest factor we need to keep the sport as cheep as possible to encourage riders to come out not scare them away.

The Doctor

Under - 2.24 Race Results and Points / 4.2 Procedure

2.24.2 The one hour time limit outlined is unreasonable, as defined by 4.2.1 all protest must be submitted in writing. I suggest a 24-hour protest window, this will allow riders to submit a viable case (this will not apply to mechanical protest).

The Doctor wrote:in reply to gsaltus comments,

the big thing about the age issue is that by lowering the age limit in the bigger classes you will strip the lower classes of good competitive racing. my son is 8yrs old i can keep him in the minibike open class until he is 11 or 12 and he can be a multi time champion in that class. then i can up root him straight to the 125gp class. or better yet you have a rider who is 12 to 15 and has 5 yrs race expirence and comes last every race day but by virtue of age he is qualified to race a 125 or 600 what has he shown prior to the move. nothing.

further more i want to know how many parents are willing to risk ALL they have so their child can be a pro racer? i bet none........... but that is what it is gonna take .

if you have to buy a bike every year so your child can compete just because every one else has moved up will burn a big hole in your pocket.

at the end of the day cost is going to be the biggest factor we need to keep the sport as cheep as possible to encourage riders to come out not scare them away.

The Doctor

I agree with the fact that lower classes MAYBE strip but you said it yourself keep the sport as cheap as possible. Isn't it cheaper to get a GP125 straight off the bat instead of waiting a few years riding a GP80 that you will be hard pressed to sell taking a huge loss. Sure there aren't many people that will become professional racers but everyone wants to have a good time. Who has the money to buy a mini bike then a GP70 then a GP80 then GP125 then a superbike? It all comes down to choice. Everyone has the right to choose whether they are champions or not, came first or last, ride slow or fast. We shouldn't discriminate against each other especially those of us who never quit! ( Even those with 5yrs experience and come last every race ) They are the real champions they are the ones that will keep this club alive for years to come.

All this age limit and experience stuff is crap. Uve seen a person come in and ride a 600 their first time riding and all that so there is always a bending of the rules or aceptions. If a rider comes last for 5 years they will be allowed to ride wateva in the end if they are a danger to anyone or themself they wont be let in the class. If someone is nervouse on the track it aint that hard to see we all know itand should be a combined decision from jones and the people in that class already the people that will have to trust that rider when they go into a corner with em doin 50 60 mph with em.

I think would be a good idea to post the classes and racers that have registered for the classes. Also who has upgrade from what class.

I will retrieve all the registration information to date and post it on the BMRC website and the Forum over the following week.

Thank you